General McCaffrey on Countdown

Retired General Barry McCaffrey was Olbermann's guest Monday night to discuss Iraq (of course). Regular readers of my blog know that I've cited his views on the situation in Iraq as being extremely telling. The guy doesn't bullshit and I don't believe that there's a Republican out there with the balls to label him "cut and run". He tells it like it is. And, unlike others, he's consistent. And here's the latest.

OLBERMANN: For the practicality of the plans, if any, as promised, I'm joined now by retired four-star Army general Barry McCaffrey.

Thank you for your time tonight, sir.

GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: I want to start with the—where we ended with Richard, McCain calling for more troops. Assuming that that's, on face value, a valid proposal, would it make any difference right now, relative to what either is, or almost is, a civil war in Iraq? Or is too much, too many troops too late right now?

MCCAFFREY: Well, I—two things. First of all, it's not feasible. You know, I was just down at Fort Hood, Texas, a week ago. One of the units there is now deploying on its fifth combat tour.

So we could surge to fight the North Koreans, or do some dramatic escalation. But steady state, we've had it. There are 17 brigades there now. We've got to get it down to 10 brigades. I think by Christmas, which can't be done. But we're going to absolutely start a drawdown of troop strength in Iraq.

OLBERMANN: So clearly, the Senator Levin-Senator Biden idea, the advocation of phased withdrawal, that is a political solution, not a military one, their position being that Iraqis would only stand up if they are forced to do so. Does the political one also, though, serve, in this case, as a military solution for Iraq?

MCCAFFREY: Some of this may be inside-the-Beltway politics, Keith, because, you know, at the end of day, we're clearly going to come out of Iraq. The American people have walked away from the war. The capacity Army and Marine Corps and Special Operations Command to sustain it, starting to run out. You know, $61 billion shortfall in Army equipment.

So the question is, how and when. I would prefer to see privately telling the Iraqi government, Here's our phased withdrawal, than doing it publicly. But, you know, at the end of the day, you'll see the Dems pushing that argument, and probably the Baker commission, Lee Hamilton's commission, giving them some, you know, intellectual orchestration to getting out with honor.

OLBERMANN: Yes, the parachute idea. Now, as to what Tony Blair said tonight, advocating one of these ideas that had leaked out of the Iraq Study Group initial findings, asking Syria and Iran to help in Iraq, is there logic that we're missing on the surface here of asking states that sponsor terrorism to, in essence, help stop terrorism next door?

MCCAFFREY: No, I think that's one of the big new ideas that'll come out of this Iraq Study Group. I hope we adopt it. I hope we have direct engagement in both Tehran and Damascus, and with the Turks and with the Saudis. We probably need a permanent, ongoing regional peace discussion hosted by the Saudis or whoever.

But we‘ve got to find a political cap to put over the military effort. We can‘t win it on the ground with U.S. combat troops. We‘ve got to resource the Iraqi security forces so they can engage. Then we got to hope that Maliki and his government have some ability to govern, which is sadly lacking right now. Basically, this administration in Iraq is largely dysfunctional.

OLBERMANN: So sum it up for me at this point, General. A White House-Congress strategy for victory defines victory as what, now?

MCCAFFREY: Well, I wince when I hear the word "victory." What I would hope we'd go for is a stable Iraq under the rule of law, not attacking its neighbors, not building weapons of mass destruction, and not a giant internal threat to its own people. That ought to be achievable.

It would probably take us five or more years of continued presence at some level. We certainly have to build Iraqi security forces that can do the job internally. And we got to start negotiations with Iraq's neighbors, and internally with the factions.

All is not lost, as Fareed Zakaria said, but right now, we're losing.

OLBERMANN: We'll see if that—those statements from Mr. Blair are an auger of things to come in the next few weeks.

Retired Army general Barry McCaffrey, MSNBC military analyst, of course. Always an honor to have you, sir.

MCCAFFREY: Good to be with you, Keith.

Still waiting for the Baker commission's report. I wonder if it will be as free of politics as he claimed it will be.

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